that's cause YOU assume it's not the generalization. cause you are not one of those kinds of guys. i know more girls who've been raped because "it was their fault they were (insert stupid excuse here)" or just because a guy could. i don't know WHY this is the case, i really wish i did. but a lot of men out there feel inferior and must take it out on someone else.
the point of this is to talk more about the guys who are the good guys. who don't even CONSIDER violating a woman's trust. some of the stories in the comments are good.
I had to explain to someone a few weeks ago why I'd be offended and would punch in the head someone who thought it would be totally cool to pick me up and throw me over their shoulder without my permission.
And that is one reason why I married cassiusdrow. I have never had to doubt, not ONCE that he would do that to me or any woman, nor that if he saw it coming to that (or even less), that he would step in (and has).
But yeah, before I was with him? I felt like that all the time. I feel like it to a lesser extent when he is not next to me, even now.
I think that the responsibility for preventing rape should not just be put on men. I think we need to educate girls better and at a younger age that it's perfectly fine to say NO if you're uncomfortable, and that no MEANS no, and if some guy thinks it doesn't he deserves a kick in the balls.
I'm NOT saying that anyone who gets raped, ever, is to blame. I just think that some of those poor women would have not had such a horrible thing happen to them if they had been better educated.
yar. some girls feel like they have no options. that they have to heed certain actions to be accepted, even if they don't want to. and that shit is fucked.
I have some issues with that post. In spite of her roundabout way of saying that not all guys are like that, her tone betrays her thoughts. Her tone would indicate that (push come to shove) it would be rare for a guy to NOT go down that path, and I find that pretty damned offensive. She wonders where the stories are? They don't get told because, quite frankly, *not* raping someone shouldn't be something you have to brag on.
as to redstapler's comment, I have several times thrown people over my shoulder (or otherwise picked them up - Ro just was NOT going over my shoulder) quite without permission. That isn't anywhere near the same ballpark. To be fair, none were strangers and I was quite certain that none would be offended by my action (even if, especially in Ro's case, they were rather afraid).
markmade is right that there really is that sweeping generalisation in the post.
I wonder, how would cereta react to my assertion that Megan's Law (in all its various forms) should be tossed out. Would she listen to my reasoning? Or would she respond with accusations that I'm marginalizing sexual assault.
i don't get that tone at all. then again, you are a guy. i have been molested by a family member (when i was underage, and who thought it was "okay because i had breasts"), and trapped by men several times.
i would LOVE to say, yes you are absolutely correct. we shouldn't have to state when men are gentlemen. but they're not. i am lucky that i have managed to get rid of a lot of people in my life like that, but not every woman is.
we have a friend who LOSES HER SHIT if her feet leave the ground. if you just do it? that's not nice, that's violating personal space and the such, scaring the fuck out of her. if you give someone a warning or something, "hey, gonna get ya!" or something, that's different. you give the person time to either play along or not.
there are generalizations, but for the most part, it's sadly true. have you read the comments? the stories in there are really amazing. one day we'll live in a world where people are educated about their choices and have the ability to say "no" and have it respected.
I'm not entirely sure who you're referring to unless you mean Heidy... but again, I did say that those who I have tossed over my shoulder I'm quite certain aren't offended by such. Also, it isn't anywhere NEAR the same ballpark as molestation/sexual assault.
Also, having been on the other side of things (being wrongfully accused of sexual harassment - twice), I see the other side as well. Keep in mind that your own ex was "accused" (I use the term somewhat lightly here) of forcing himself upon my ex. In this particular case, it was her way of putting the blame for cheating on him instead of herself. It does call into serious question the other 2 times she has accused men of sexual assault or outright rape. This also leads to my EXTREME issue with false accusations. The mere accusation of sexual misconduct (I'm broadening out the term here because it doesn't just have to be rape or sexual assault - sexual harassment falls into this category) can absolutely ruin a man. I was very nearly passed over for promotion in part due to my vindictive ex-gf and her accusations. At a much more extreme end, there is the case of the 2006 Duke University lacrosse team. Seligmann, Evans and Finnerty will forever have their names attached to that. It caused the suspension of the season for people who weren't even accused of being involved, the forced resignation of their coach and the arrest of a cabbie who was able to provide an alibi to the accused (on a nearly 3 year old shoplifting charge - he was later acquitted). All of that because of a false accusation and the prosecutor looking to score points (he, btw, has lost his license and served a day in jail for contempt of court for withholding evidence).
Now, mostly for the benefit of people reading your LJ who do *not* know me, I also want to point out my reasons for believing in the abolishment of Megan's Law.
1 - It simply doesn't work. Recivitism(sp) is still quite high. It also in many cases leaves registered sex offenders either with NO place to live, or clustered tightly together (which in and of itself can often cause a person to violate the terms of their parole).
2 - Many states aren't funding it enough to even begin to allow monitoring to work (and this isn't likely to change).
3 - Many versions tacked these requirements on people who had previously been convicted (making it ex post facto and therefore unconstitutional).
4 - When a person has served their time, that's it... they're done.
5 - If a person is that dangerous that we need to know where they are all the time, what the fuck are they doing OUT of prison?
6 - The public posting of names/addresses (as is mandated in most cases) leads to a NIMBY mentality. Nobody wants these people in their neighborhood, but they have to be SOMEWHERE (see #1). At its worst, the posting can create an even more dangerous situation of a lynchmob/vigilante mentality. It can also mask other similar situations (especially if the previous offender had a perticular MO which is publicly known).
7 - The laws themselves vary greatly from state to state and at times are seemingly arbitrary (see the case of Genarlow Wilson)
I'm not entirely sure who you're referring to unless you mean Heidy... but again, I did say that those who I have tossed over my shoulder I'm quite certain aren't offended by such. Also, it isn't anywhere NEAR the same ballpark as molestation/sexual assault.
No, they are not equivalent, but the lack of regard for the fact women are individuals and not public property comes from a similar school of thought.
Not everyone who would pick me up without my permission would rape me, but I'd bet a lot of money that the same people who would rape me would pick me up without my permission.
I've also been That Guy - having been tossed out of a bar with a group of coworkers after we beat the snot out of a guy for groping a young lady in our group.
As to the comments, I have read some. The stories are noteworthy. I do have an observation though - the one dissenting comment I saw (I did not read through all the condensed down comments, only first comments, and I stopped after 2 pages) was pretty immediately vilified (http://cereta.livejournal.com/652008.html?thread=12201192#t12201192) - and that was a woman posting it. The originating post has drawn to it (as often happens in polarizing discussions) a very particular group of readers/commenters. One commenter (who I felt brought up some very good points and did so in a very non-attacking way) was pretty immediately attacked. He even noted that he himself was a rape victim and it was no less than 20 comments later that this was even acknowledged. The level of bias among the majority of the commenters is astounding. One in particular (at this point I have read beyond page 2) talks about distributing "how not to be mistaken for a rapist" pamphlets. Reading that comment and the responses got me rather pissed off to the point of not reading much further. Should Jared have to actively prove to the world that, just because he's black, he isn't a thug?
it's very rambling, but you wouldn't be you if you didn't go to extremes to play the unnecessary devil's advocate, lol.
i'm not saying all women are saints. far from it. but by that logic, you need to realize how many assholes are out there. as having yourself been a victim, you realize what happens. you see the things that have happened around you, or on the tv, and you become aware.
i'm going to refrain from any meghan's law comments, for obvious reasons, especially since this is a public post.
as for getting kicked out of a bar, good for you! THAT is the kind of thing we're trying to really publicize. it's OKAY to be kicked out of a stupid bar for doing the right thing.
in that thread, there are plenty of people who are flying to the bias, but that happens with all threads. if you continue to read the OPs comments, she continues to stick to her post, and does not verbally assault anyone.
rape is a sensitive subject, and that's where this boiled down too, so people are the defensive.
no one should have to prove themselves, but it'd be nice to hear more "random acts of kindness" and that's where this goes. to show young men it is okay to be a gentleman. to show them they don't have to to be insecure, and that it IS OKAY to be unpopular and respect people, (in this post, women).
The way the question was posed to me, it indicated that someone I didn't already know was doing the picking up.
Let's say I'm at pennsic and wander toward a campfire, and some 6'christfuck dude decides that all 5' of me would be fun to manhandle, and I don't know this guy from Adam. That's who I would punch in the head.
If it was someone who DID know me, I'd tell them to put me the fuck down and then I'd give them what for verbally.
My (and other womens') bodies are not public property or playthings.
"They don't get told because, quite frankly, *not* raping someone shouldn't be something you have to brag on."
You're right it SHOULDN'T be, but unfortunately in the current world climate it sorta is something that might be explored in order to break down the way masculinity's view of women is taught and promoted.
"Should Jared have to actively prove to the world that, just because he's black, he isn't a thug?"
When you hear over and over that black people are shooting other black people and dealing drugs, then suddenly you're only getting one side of the picture, and then Jared is having to prove he's not a thug when he shouldn't have to. One of the many reasons why there's always an outcry for more media representations of minorities in normal things like sitcoms, dramas, etc...
not all men suck, obviously, but since it's a stereotype placed upon men, men need to be the ones to actively show/demonstrate/tell that they aren't involved in that behavior and they should be aggressive towards those who perpetuate the stereotype, just whining at the person pointing out the stereotype isn't going to cut it. Unfortunately with stereotypes you either have to fix it or live with it. I know that's not fair, trust me, as a person who is fat, queer, and born without a penis, I've had to fight some stereotypes in my life too.
I've had that scary moment, sitting with a bunch of female friends and EVERYONE goes around and recounts the times they've been sexually harrassed/assaulted/raped. The scariest part is that you can skip the question, "have you ever been...?" becasue it's about as pointless as asking, "have you ever sneezed?"
I tottally agree with odogonefishin, not raping someone is not something you brag about. I for have been faced with that situation, and yes I did scoop the girl up and drive her home. While a few bad apples do spoil the bunch you cannot hold all of man (gender) responsible for the actions of a few. Rape in and of intself is a reprehensible crime that should be held by the legal system as high as murder in the first. I for one wonder what cereta would say if I presented her with the nationwide statistics of male rape. That is a woman who rapes a man. Those too are stories you never hear about and in fact the court system makes it harder to prove male rape... In my line of work I have had to treat rape victims. While state protocol does dictate that rape victims be treated by a female ambulance crew, that is not always possible when the emergecny rises. I have had to sit with women and attempt to assuade them into believing that I am there to help not to hurt and I had to do this just because I am male and the experience that they just went through. Do these stories get told no... Why?? you may ask because they are not interesting... odogonefishin brought up the lacrosse team that was accused of rape recently, when that happend it was all over the news. That my friends is textbook journalism, you go with what people want to see and or read... No one wants to hear about the guy who tucked the hot girl into his bed and went to sleep on the couch because she got drunk and passed out at his house, they would rather hear about how he raped her, and that my friends is the sick sad world we live in and has nothing to do with gender. It's media sensationalism, the same reason that you don't hear about the fireman who saved the old ladies kitty from a tree no one really cares... Saying that all men will rape when given the oppurtunity is like saying that all black people deal drugs, or that all asians are good at math, or all homosexuals have excellent fashion sense, it's stereotyping and it's not right to stereotype when it comes to race and it's not right when it comes to gender...
howie, that's just IT though. it's not a few. you make it seem like for every 10 good guys out there, there is one bad apple, when it's pretty much the exact opposite math.
many women don't report getting raped either. for MANY reasons. i would love to say everyone should be able to report it, consequence free, but sometimes, it's just not that easy. then you also have people being raped who lie about it. it's terrible either way.
but why do stereotypes happen? cause there are more people than not in that category doing that behaviour.
Wait a second... You're saying that for every good guy, there's 10 dirtbags and rapists? Even the statistics that one of the commenters posted don't support that. It very much is a minority, albeit a statistically significantly one.
yes. *i'm* saying that. and i'm not saying it's exact, i haven't done polls. jesus.
you must keep in mind, you have not met me that long. life has not always been as nice as it has been for me. i have been lucky in the people i have met recently.
eric, are you trying to be argumentative with me? are you trying to say what i've experienced is rare, because i know it's not? are you trying to make this subject that has effected me and continues to effect me not as important as it should be to me just because not EVERYONE is like that? i was just posting a link for people to be aware about the ORIGINAL POSTER said. not the biased comments. the OP has a point. if you don't like it, go debate it over there.
i think you're upsetting me, unitentionally, and i am having a hard time being objective now. you should go post these views in that thread.
When I'm at work, in my super "clean" club that has a reputation for letting guys get away with even less than they actually do, maybe 1 guy a night is that super gentleman who won't even put his $1 between my boobs for fear of touching them by accident and disrespecting me. More than half of the rest of them will actively try to squeeze my breast while they do it. For $1. Of that last slightly-less-than-half, many will fold that $1 bill into the tiniest possible size, to try and get the maximum amount of their fingers merely brushing against my skin. For $1.
All night, I am subject to men who think it's totally appropriate not only to grope my breasts, ass, and sometimes even my pussy as I walk past them, without even paying me. They feel that they have already paid the $15 to get into the club, and that it is thus their right as customers to touch my body, regardless of what I may think.
Frequently, regardless of whether or not these men have paid me a dime, me saying "stop," or moving their hands away, or doing anything suggesting that I should have power over what happens to my own body, is met with surprise, confusion, and even hostility. That's when they pay attention to my reaction at all. As often as not, they don't stop, and will continue to grab my ass (where it usually starts), or move on to the other obvious "no-no zones" after being told not to touch me.
What does that say about how these men view the value of any woman? These things happen with sober men, drunk men, white men, black men, latino men, etc...
1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).1
17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.1
Men: About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1
* In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male.2 * 2.78 million men in the U.S. have been victims of sexual assault or rape.1
1 = National Institute of Justice & Centers for Disease Control & Prevention. Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women Survey. 1998.
In 2004-2005, 64,080 women were raped.8
8 = U.S. Department of Justice. 2005 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2005.
wait, here's what I actually wanted: Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted.
Here's the math. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey -- the country's largest and most reliable crime study -- there were 248,300 sexual assaults in 2007 (the most recent data available).
There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes.
The other thing I want to say (although I know this debate happened almost 4 months ago) is that because of sexual harassment in all of its forms, women have also learned to be afraid of men. There is a LOT of sexual harassment that is OK in society. Look anywhere around you and I can guarantee you'll find it, much like the prevalence of homophobia in current society. Furthermore, because of gender specific language, stereotypes, and other ideas, there is further reinforcement that women are objects, not people and therefore its OK to do what you want to and with them. It creates a climate where its not OK for women to do anything because then they "deserve it". Over 50% of rapes are perpetrated by people who know their victims personally, yet those are rarely ever prosecuted or talked about. Generally speaking (and if you want, I'll find the statistics cause I know I'm right on this, at least from what I've learned in a Women in American History class, and other classes, I'm sure), women are more likely to be raped by someone they trust. This adds to the distrust and discourse that you were seeing in the other post.
Oh, last thing: Men have it even worse when they're raped because they have to deal with the fact that almost no one in society believes that can happen to men (much in the same way women are "asking for it" if a man is "hard" then he must want it), and I think that's just as important. Also, they have to deal with the shame they're taught to feel for being "that weak" (I don't believe this, but this is the current view on it and I think that while women also deal with shame, that because of views on masculinity in society that it can create a situation where it is even harder for men to deal with their shame). Secondly, all of this also goes to show how deeply gender as a social construction is ingrained in our society and how much discrimination is really out there.
I'm reading even further back! I had no idea you and your fiance even broke up! I haven't been reading in way over a year. You just have a LOT of posts lol
To be honest I do agree that there are less of the good men out there. I just hate that sentence that all men are... fill in the blank. Being very close to someone who has been through this horrible crime I know how it can have permanent effects on ones life. I apologize if I said anything that upset you. It is most likely for this reason that the state DOH offers courses to EMT and Paramedics to teach them how to properly deal with a rape victim. One of the main reasons that the whole all men suck...stereotype hits home to me is that growing up I was one of the few "good" guys that my female friends knew and it was because of this that I became the "big brother" and when I di gather up enough courage to ask a girl out (as I have the self esteem of thimble and always have) that was the answer I got, oh you're like a brother to me I could never go out with you. Meanwhile, this same girl would go out with some asswhole who would do anything if given the chance... I dunno... I think that this whole discussion comes down to what was said earlier with one exception. I agree that girls need to be educated better educated that they can say no and that they are NOT the weaker sex, however, I also believe that young boys need to be educated better. Educated that the sun does not rise and set with the male gender and that treating a woman like a person as opposed to an object for sex is also "macho"...
On that note I will end my two cents now that it has been made into four cents...
Educated that the sun does not rise and set with the male gender and that treating a woman like a person as opposed to an object for sex is also "macho"...
Having been on both sides of this equation (raped, and not raped/looked after), I can say that good men are becoming a rarity.
I was at a frat party, and I was blitzed out of my mind. One of my brothers watched out for me, and even let me sleep off some of the horridness I had gotten myself in to on his chest. All I can remember after the praying to the porcelain gods, was my big coming into the room and making lewd remarks about how the guy taking care of me should have taken advantage of things. (reason #286 for hating my big)
This whole thing sucks. No matter how many times people say how progressive our country is, we are just as bad as the 3rd world. Happens every day, in many walks of life. I just wish that the world/country would have progressed more than this in 200+ years.
Education is key, for both sides. Women need to know that its ok to say no, and men need to know that no means no and just because one may fool around with someone doesn't mean that sex is an automatic. I have been on both sides of the fence, and went so far as attempting to prosecute the fucker but even in 2009 rape is an incredibly difficult crime to prove, no matter what, education is key, but i also believe unfortunately that it is one of the oldest crimes and won't ever go away.
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synnoveaevael) wrote2009-06-15 02:19 pm
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the point of this is to talk more about the guys who are the good guys. who don't even CONSIDER violating a woman's trust. some of the stories in the comments are good.
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I had to explain to someone a few weeks ago why I'd be offended and would punch in the head someone who thought it would be totally cool to pick me up and throw me over their shoulder without my permission.
You know that's a bad plan. This guy didn't.
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But yeah, before I was with him? I felt like that all the time. I feel like it to a lesser extent when he is not next to me, even now.
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BUT.
I think that the responsibility for preventing rape should not just be put on men. I think we need to educate girls better and at a younger age that it's perfectly fine to say NO if you're uncomfortable, and that no MEANS no, and if some guy thinks it doesn't he deserves a kick in the balls.
I'm NOT saying that anyone who gets raped, ever, is to blame. I just think that some of those poor women would have not had such a horrible thing happen to them if they had been better educated.
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education is key everywhere.
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That ain't right.
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as to redstapler's comment, I have several times thrown people over my shoulder (or otherwise picked them up - Ro just was NOT going over my shoulder) quite without permission. That isn't anywhere near the same ballpark. To be fair, none were strangers and I was quite certain that none would be offended by my action (even if, especially in Ro's case, they were rather afraid).
markmade is right that there really is that sweeping generalisation in the post.
I wonder, how would cereta react to my assertion that Megan's Law (in all its various forms) should be tossed out. Would she listen to my reasoning? Or would she respond with accusations that I'm marginalizing sexual assault.
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i would LOVE to say, yes you are absolutely correct. we shouldn't have to state when men are gentlemen. but they're not. i am lucky that i have managed to get rid of a lot of people in my life like that, but not every woman is.
we have a friend who LOSES HER SHIT if her feet leave the ground. if you just do it? that's not nice, that's violating personal space and the such, scaring the fuck out of her. if you give someone a warning or something, "hey, gonna get ya!" or something, that's different. you give the person time to either play along or not.
there are generalizations, but for the most part, it's sadly true. have you read the comments? the stories in there are really amazing. one day we'll live in a world where people are educated about their choices and have the ability to say "no" and have it respected.
but until then? this is life, man.
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Also, having been on the other side of things (being wrongfully accused of sexual harassment - twice), I see the other side as well. Keep in mind that your own ex was "accused" (I use the term somewhat lightly here) of forcing himself upon my ex. In this particular case, it was her way of putting the blame for cheating on him instead of herself. It does call into serious question the other 2 times she has accused men of sexual assault or outright rape. This also leads to my EXTREME issue with false accusations. The mere accusation of sexual misconduct (I'm broadening out the term here because it doesn't just have to be rape or sexual assault - sexual harassment falls into this category) can absolutely ruin a man. I was very nearly passed over for promotion in part due to my vindictive ex-gf and her accusations. At a much more extreme end, there is the case of the 2006 Duke University lacrosse team. Seligmann, Evans and Finnerty will forever have their names attached to that. It caused the suspension of the season for people who weren't even accused of being involved, the forced resignation of their coach and the arrest of a cabbie who was able to provide an alibi to the accused (on a nearly 3 year old shoplifting charge - he was later acquitted). All of that because of a false accusation and the prosecutor looking to score points (he, btw, has lost his license and served a day in jail for contempt of court for withholding evidence).
Now, mostly for the benefit of people reading your LJ who do *not* know me, I also want to point out my reasons for believing in the abolishment of Megan's Law.
1 - It simply doesn't work. Recivitism(sp) is still quite high. It also in many cases leaves registered sex offenders either with NO place to live, or clustered tightly together (which in and of itself can often cause a person to violate the terms of their parole).
2 - Many states aren't funding it enough to even begin to allow monitoring to work (and this isn't likely to change).
3 - Many versions tacked these requirements on people who had previously been convicted (making it ex post facto and therefore unconstitutional).
4 - When a person has served their time, that's it... they're done.
5 - If a person is that dangerous that we need to know where they are all the time, what the fuck are they doing OUT of prison?
6 - The public posting of names/addresses (as is mandated in most cases) leads to a NIMBY mentality. Nobody wants these people in their neighborhood, but they have to be SOMEWHERE (see #1). At its worst, the posting can create an even more dangerous situation of a lynchmob/vigilante mentality. It can also mask other similar situations (especially if the previous offender had a perticular MO which is publicly known).
7 - The laws themselves vary greatly from state to state and at times are seemingly arbitrary (see the case of Genarlow Wilson)
to be continued due to character max length....
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No, they are not equivalent, but the lack of regard for the fact women are individuals and not public property comes from a similar school of thought.
Not everyone who would pick me up without my permission would rape me, but I'd bet a lot of money that the same people who would rape me would pick me up without my permission.
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As to the comments, I have read some. The stories are noteworthy. I do have an observation though - the one dissenting comment I saw (I did not read through all the condensed down comments, only first comments, and I stopped after 2 pages) was pretty immediately vilified (http://cereta.livejournal.com/652008.html?thread=12201192#t12201192) - and that was a woman posting it. The originating post has drawn to it (as often happens in polarizing discussions) a very particular group of readers/commenters. One commenter (who I felt brought up some very good points and did so in a very non-attacking way) was pretty immediately attacked. He even noted that he himself was a rape victim and it was no less than 20 comments later that this was even acknowledged. The level of bias among the majority of the commenters is astounding. One in particular (at this point I have read beyond page 2) talks about distributing "how not to be mistaken for a rapist" pamphlets. Reading that comment and the responses got me rather pissed off to the point of not reading much further. Should Jared have to actively prove to the world that, just because he's black, he isn't a thug?
Sorry if this is overly rambling...
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i'm not saying all women are saints. far from it. but by that logic, you need to realize how many assholes are out there. as having yourself been a victim, you realize what happens. you see the things that have happened around you, or on the tv, and you become aware.
i'm going to refrain from any meghan's law comments, for obvious reasons, especially since this is a public post.
as for getting kicked out of a bar, good for you! THAT is the kind of thing we're trying to really publicize. it's OKAY to be kicked out of a stupid bar for doing the right thing.
in that thread, there are plenty of people who are flying to the bias, but that happens with all threads. if you continue to read the OPs comments, she continues to stick to her post, and does not verbally assault anyone.
rape is a sensitive subject, and that's where this boiled down too, so people are the defensive.
no one should have to prove themselves, but it'd be nice to hear more "random acts of kindness" and that's where this goes. to show young men it is okay to be a gentleman. to show them they don't have to to be insecure, and that it IS OKAY to be unpopular and respect people, (in this post, women).
do unto others. yaddah.
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Let's say I'm at pennsic and wander toward a campfire, and some 6'christfuck dude decides that all 5' of me would be fun to manhandle, and I don't know this guy from Adam. That's who I would punch in the head.
If it was someone who DID know me, I'd tell them to put me the fuck down and then I'd give them what for verbally.
My (and other womens') bodies are not public property or playthings.
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You're right it SHOULDN'T be, but unfortunately in the current world climate it sorta is something that might be explored in order to break down the way masculinity's view of women is taught and promoted.
"Should Jared have to actively prove to the world that, just because he's black, he isn't a thug?"
When you hear over and over that black people are shooting other black people and dealing drugs, then suddenly you're only getting one side of the picture, and then Jared is having to prove he's not a thug when he shouldn't have to. One of the many reasons why there's always an outcry for more media representations of minorities in normal things like sitcoms, dramas, etc...
not all men suck, obviously, but since it's a stereotype placed upon men, men need to be the ones to actively show/demonstrate/tell that they aren't involved in that behavior and they should be aggressive towards those who perpetuate the stereotype, just whining at the person pointing out the stereotype isn't going to cut it. Unfortunately with stereotypes you either have to fix it or live with it. I know that's not fair, trust me, as a person who is fat, queer, and born without a penis, I've had to fight some stereotypes in my life too.
I've had that scary moment, sitting with a bunch of female friends and EVERYONE goes around and recounts the times they've been sexually harrassed/assaulted/raped. The scariest part is that you can skip the question, "have you ever been...?" becasue it's about as pointless as asking, "have you ever sneezed?"
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That's just my two cents I could be wrong...
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many women don't report getting raped either. for MANY reasons. i would love to say everyone should be able to report it, consequence free, but sometimes, it's just not that easy. then you also have people being raped who lie about it. it's terrible either way.
but why do stereotypes happen? cause there are more people than not in that category doing that behaviour.
you're not wrong. but no one's right.
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you must keep in mind, you have not met me that long. life has not always been as nice as it has been for me. i have been lucky in the people i have met recently.
eric, are you trying to be argumentative with me? are you trying to say what i've experienced is rare, because i know it's not? are you trying to make this subject that has effected me and continues to effect me not as important as it should be to me just because not EVERYONE is like that? i was just posting a link for people to be aware about the ORIGINAL POSTER said. not the biased comments. the OP has a point. if you don't like it, go debate it over there.
i think you're upsetting me, unitentionally, and i am having a hard time being objective now. you should go post these views in that thread.
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http://cereta.livejournal.com/652008.html?thread=12969960#t12969960
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All night, I am subject to men who think it's totally appropriate not only to grope my breasts, ass, and sometimes even my pussy as I walk past them, without even paying me. They feel that they have already paid the $15 to get into the club, and that it is thus their right as customers to touch my body, regardless of what I may think.
Frequently, regardless of whether or not these men have paid me a dime, me saying "stop," or moving their hands away, or doing anything suggesting that I should have power over what happens to my own body, is met with surprise, confusion, and even hostility. That's when they pay attention to my reaction at all. As often as not, they don't stop, and will continue to grab my ass (where it usually starts), or move on to the other obvious "no-no zones" after being told not to touch me.
What does that say about how these men view the value of any woman? These things happen with sober men, drunk men, white men, black men, latino men, etc...
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17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.1
Men: About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1
* In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male.2
* 2.78 million men in the U.S. have been victims of sexual assault or rape.1
1 = National Institute of Justice & Centers for Disease Control & Prevention. Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women Survey. 1998.
In 2004-2005, 64,080 women were raped.8
8 = U.S. Department of Justice. 2005 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2005.
Source: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims
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Here's the math. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey -- the country's largest and most reliable crime study -- there were 248,300 sexual assaults in 2007 (the most recent data available).
There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes.
The webpage (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault) goes on to say that rape in the US has declined by 60% since 1993, but that's still a hell of a lot of rape going on.
The other thing I want to say (although I know this debate happened almost 4 months ago) is that because of sexual harassment in all of its forms, women have also learned to be afraid of men. There is a LOT of sexual harassment that is OK in society. Look anywhere around you and I can guarantee you'll find it, much like the prevalence of homophobia in current society. Furthermore, because of gender specific language, stereotypes, and other ideas, there is further reinforcement that women are objects, not people and therefore its OK to do what you want to and with them. It creates a climate where its not OK for women to do anything because then they "deserve it". Over 50% of rapes are perpetrated by people who know their victims personally, yet those are rarely ever prosecuted or talked about. Generally speaking (and if you want, I'll find the statistics cause I know I'm right on this, at least from what I've learned in a Women in American History class, and other classes, I'm sure), women are more likely to be raped by someone they trust. This adds to the distrust and discourse that you were seeing in the other post.
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On that note I will end my two cents now that it has been made into four cents...
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word.
*grins* thanks for playing along :)
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I was at a frat party, and I was blitzed out of my mind. One of my brothers watched out for me, and even let me sleep off some of the horridness I had gotten myself in to on his chest. All I can remember after the praying to the porcelain gods, was my big coming into the room and making lewd remarks about how the guy taking care of me should have taken advantage of things. (reason #286 for hating my big)
This whole thing sucks. No matter how many times people say how progressive our country is, we are just as bad as the 3rd world. Happens every day, in many walks of life. I just wish that the world/country would have progressed more than this in 200+ years.
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me too. at least we have a (half)black president! moving forward. baby steps.
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