This...

[synnoveaevael]

Is one of the longest posts I've read.

But, I think it's worth the read.

Nice Guys, you know you know the type..

HUGE thanks to wench18 for thinking of lil' ol' me & Squish when she posted it!!

Comments

[ryanov.livejournal.com]

She's mostly right... mostly.

The tricky thing with women (and I know this is going to get me in trouble, but I really don't care) is that a lot of them don't notice angles even when they are there. This isn't really a bad thing -- everyone's got an angle of some kind, even if it's a benevolent one, otherwise why would anyone do anything?

With resepect to, for example, random guy who apparently got the girl... I have no reason to believe he didn't know what he was doing (except for the fact that a larger percentage than I'd think would occur in nature seem to be utterly clueless). Let's take this paragraph:

Now the moral of the story is not "good things come to those who wait". If you (male or female) have a thing for someone and they tell you they don't return it, waiting around and playing at being a sympathetic friend in the expectation that you'll wear them down and get yours one day makes you an asshole, not a friend.

I completely disagree with this. I'm an asshole for plenty of reasons, but having done this is not one of them. There have been a couple people like this where I felt a certain way, they got the information and A) they didn't feel the same way or B) did, but were in a relationship or something that wasn't worth risking for an outside chance at something else. In the two cases that I'm thinking of most specifically, I really ultimately fell pretty hard for the person. My options here are continue to be their friend and of COURSE hope that eventually they come around (what, I'm supposed to not want that anymore because they don't? sorry, that's not how desire works) -- if I have any manners, hiding that fact completely -- or stop being their friend because it's going to be too hard for me to conduct myself as a proper friend if I really care for someone, which would be doing them a disservice.

If you really care for someone that you've come across and you have any faith in yourself, I'm sure you feel as if you have something to offer them that they currently don't have (and if you don't, why would you ever expect to get into a relationship, even with someone who has no reason not to date you). Does that mean, yeah, I'm playing being the sympathetic friend so I can get the girl? I don't think so... I have reason to believe it may happen someday because I have some measure of confidence and I can look at a situation and how she responds and see if I'm barking up the wrong tree or not (provided she's not sending false signals).

I also really don't like the one-sided dating scenario that seems to exist in this writing. Maybe it was just because they were referring to the "process" of being approached by a nice guy, but... the whole idea that there are these guys out there that are attempting to mess with women in some way in order to get what they want... since when did wanting what you want or getting what you want become a crime? For example, this section:

It's some kind of fucked up alpha wolf pissing contest but he would just love to lure a woman away from her boyfriend (who he perceives as more alpha because he has a female) and thus prove that the nice identity he's invested so much in is really the bigger-dicked one.

The reality here is that men and women are all people and the woman is just as responsible for her actions as is the man. There are cases where this afforementioned thing might be exactly what is happening, but you are no less to blame here than males are who don't get the hint when the girl is squirming away from them. It is all about reading people. I have lured women away from their boyfriends because I loved them and wanted to be with them. While I have ultimately screwed that up pretty badly in the past, there was none of this insidious fiendish planning to get something out of someone. If she chooses to leave whomever for me, clearly she thinks she can get as much out of a relationship with me as I can get out of a relationship with her... happiness, probably. If anything, I think this reflects poorly on her for oversimplifying. While I think the Nice Guys are doing something very stupid because anyone worth their salt can see right through it, their lack of success is its own punishment.

[synnoveaevael.livejournal.com]

interesting... i definitely see how some of your points are valid... everything is definitely a two way street..

[ryanov.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting that, for the first time ever, I hit the 4300 char limit on a comment.

[synnoveaevael.livejournal.com]

LOL... *claps*

i've done it before. i've actually done it in TWO comments back to back (cause i was helping someone with something, so you know me, long winded and all)... i talk too much..

[ryanov.livejournal.com]

FYI, what I trimmed was the apology for having kinda thrown the response together. I think mid-paragraph I'd lose focus.

I am kinda a formal writer. ;)

[synnoveaevael.livejournal.com]

hehehe...

prollllyy

[craftyskwrl.livejournal.com]

I completely disagree with this. I'm an asshole for plenty of reasons, but having done this is not one of them. There have been a couple people like this where I felt a certain way, they got the information and A) they didn't feel the same way or B) did, but were in a relationship or something that wasn't worth risking for an outside chance at something else. In the two cases that I'm thinking of most specifically, I really ultimately fell pretty hard for the person. My options here are continue to be their friend and of COURSE hope that eventually they come around (what, I'm supposed to not want that anymore because they don't? sorry, that's not how desire works) -- if I have any manners, hiding that fact completely -- or stop being their friend because it's going to be too hard for me to conduct myself as a proper friend if I really care for someone, which would be doing them a disservice.

I completely agree with your statements here.

[sungodincarnate.livejournal.com]

That's too long for me to read, I don't have an attention span to read anything more than 2 paragraphs long.

[synnoveaevael.livejournal.com]

heheheh